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不清[不清]
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二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2006-03-22
帖子: 1364

帖子发表于: 星期六 十二月 23, 2006 1:40 am    发表主题: 引用并回复

Happy holiday to you all too!

Technique is one thing, but ingredient is another! My point is more about ingredients rather than Poetry Technique

I don't remember when was the last time i saw a white horse on a green praire... Or when was the last time i sat down admiring the sunset! The last few lines where the poet used flower and moon to translate the sense of loneiness or deep though just don't cut it in my opinion. How many people nowaday would feel moved by looking at the moon?

It's easy for us as poets and poetry readers to understand the associations that are attempted! But for a person who's new to poetry let's say, he probabaly understand the meaning of cyber friendship way better than a group of friends sitting around a table under the moonlight, chating about literarture! As a person living in a city my whole life, I don't associate well with nature images. They are not real to me. I am not attached to those things. I think what i was trying to do is to encourage other poet to insert new found objects of the modern day into poetry. Instead of flower or moon... try to write about objects like computer, or even ipod; use a sewage / drain instead of a river for example to symbolize the feeling that we want to translate!

I guess it's an issue of "regionalism" also?? Life style differences from country to country, city to city. It's possible that the poet of this work lives in the countryside rather than in a metropolis. Maybe that's why I found this poem "unreal". It was pretending to be something, rather than attempting to be something!
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「四十二排浪,沒有一排是相似的」——不清

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kokho[晓辉]
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三品按察使
(天,你是斑竹吧?)
三品按察使<BR>(天,你是斑竹吧?)


注册时间: 2006-10-25
帖子: 792
来自: Singapore

帖子发表于: 星期一 十二月 25, 2006 1:01 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

不清 写到:
Hello Kokho! it doesn't matter what the technique is. I felt that the image created here is somewhat "ancient". It's hard to escape this sense of "oldness" if we keep using things like moon, horse, flowers of spring etc. It doesn't give a sense of being Modern at all.


我不同意,比如电影。。画面是古代的,但是蒙太奇的故事交待是现代的。。。
就是好的电影,张艺谋,黑泽明 都是例子 ;)


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二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2006-03-22
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帖子发表于: 星期一 十二月 25, 2006 5:07 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

kokho 写到:
不清 写到:
Hello Kokho! it doesn't matter what the technique is. I felt that the image created here is somewhat "ancient". It's hard to escape this sense of "oldness" if we keep using things like moon, horse, flowers of spring etc. It doesn't give a sense of being Modern at all.


我不同意,比如电影。。画面是古代的,但是蒙太奇的故事交待是现代的。。。
就是好的电影,张艺谋,黑泽明 都是例子 ;)



我看問題是,電影是現代的產物,而詩是幾千年的東西!唐代人寫春花秋月,宋代人寫春花秋月,基本上都是借物以表詩人的心境,技巧可以千變萬化,但到頭來,詩人看見月亮就是代表孤寂,看見春天的花就想起花落!我不是說這symbolism不好,只是我希望華語詩能擺脫千多年的包袱,嘗試找些新的題材。寫古典的東西不是不好,只是比較難被人認同。尤其住在城市的人越來越多了,其實城市有很多新的題材有待發掘,有待你把技巧發展在它們的身上!

說回電影,對,畫面可以古代,但手法絕對是現代,因為你可以數出電影有多少年歷史,因為沒有古代的電影技巧。不過,他也可以說有,十年前的電影技巧已和今天的不同了,再者,電影和詩不同,它以劇本為主,其他東西如人物,佈景等都只依附在其身上。詩,我覺得不一樣,一首詩可以沒有因沒有果,純以文字造一個畫面,而又以畫面帶出一種情緒。電影不能只是靠美,否則就像張藝謀等國內導演的作品,只會賣弄色彩和大堆頭,但劇本則爛得可憐。

詩是創作藝術,在技巧上和題材上都要創新!

忘記了說句新年快樂! Very Happy
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「四十二排浪,沒有一排是相似的」——不清

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kokho[晓辉]
kokho作品集

三品按察使
(天,你是斑竹吧?)
三品按察使<BR>(天,你是斑竹吧?)


注册时间: 2006-10-25
帖子: 792
来自: Singapore

帖子发表于: 星期二 十二月 26, 2006 2:02 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

你说的也有理。。。

题材、形象 如果能够新鲜 肯定是好事!

有时候,旧形象,新处理 也不坏呀。。。

再说电影,张艺谋其实是很有成就的;网民对他苛刻了!

他的几部昕电影,都不断在创新!尤其是他的山水艺术系列,在外国和港台,佳评如潮!

Cool Laughing
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二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2006-10-10
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来自: Sky Blue Water

帖子发表于: 星期六 十二月 30, 2006 4:57 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

不清 写到:
Happy holiday to you all too!

Technique is one thing, but ingredient is another! My point is more about ingredients rather than Poetry Technique

I don't remember when was the last time i saw a white horse on a green praire... Or when was the last time i sat down admiring the sunset! The last few lines where the poet used flower and moon to translate the sense of loneiness or deep though just don't cut it in my opinion. How many people nowaday would feel moved by looking at the moon?

It's easy for us as poets and poetry readers to understand the associations that are attempted! But for a person who's new to poetry let's say, he probabaly understand the meaning of cyber friendship way better than a group of friends sitting around a table under the moonlight, chating about literarture! As a person living in a city my whole life, I don't associate well with nature images. They are not real to me. I am not attached to those things. I think what i was trying to do is to encourage other poet to insert new found objects of the modern day into poetry. Instead of flower or moon... try to write about objects like computer, or even ipod; use a sewage / drain instead of a river for example to symbolize the feeling that we want to translate!

I guess it's an issue of "regionalism" also?? Life style differences from country to country, city to city. It's possible that the poet of this work lives in the countryside rather than in a metropolis. Maybe that's why I found this poem "unreal". It was pretending to be something, rather than attempting to be something!


I see your point and your orientation, 不清 Smile

However, I feel sad reading your words,
引用:
As a person living in a city my whole life, I don't associate well with nature images. They are not real to me. I am not attached to those things.


And
引用:
How many people nowaday would feel moved by looking at the moon?


Believe me, people will change...

Cheers,
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二品总督总管
(回首人生,前途在望)
二品总督总管<BR>(回首人生,前途在望)


注册时间: 2006-01-13
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来自: 温哥华

帖子发表于: 星期日 十二月 31, 2006 1:04 am    发表主题: 引用并回复

楼兰新娘较有味。第一首平淡了些。

问好
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