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The NeverEnding Story (a writerly poem, many versions of it)
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
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二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
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来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期二 六月 17, 2008 10:43 am    发表主题: The NeverEnding Story (a writerly poem, many versions of it) 引用并回复

Reading, Writing, and Life on the Page

The NeverEnding Story (A Writerly Poem)

Once there was a (or the) school.
In the school there was a (or the) classroom.
In the classroom there was a (or the) young teacher
Reciting a (or the) story:
'Once there was a (or the) school
In the school there was a (or the) classroom …’


Note:

I appropriate this title from a German fantasy novel by Michael Ende, a novel which has been adapted to the film, dramatic play, ballet, and operatic media and video game in different languages around the word. And Thank Anna for pointing out my mistake about the idea of "the writerly/readerly text."
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul


最后进行编辑的是 ericcoliu on 星期二 六月 24, 2008 9:44 am, 总计第 7 次编辑
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
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二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
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来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期二 六月 17, 2008 10:51 am    发表主题: 引用并回复

Which version do you like better? The “a” or “the” version, or a version with mixed usage of "a" and "the." Surely, you can write your own version of the poem. As the writer Ezra Pound once proclaimed, "Make it New!"


Ericcoliu's Version of The NeverEnding Story

Once there was a school.
In the school there was a classroom.
In the classroom there was a young teacher
Reciting a story:
'Once there was a school
In the school there was a classroom …’

(A teacher who believes in rote-memorization education)


Responses from My Fellow Writers:

Christine's Version of The NeverEnding Story

Once there was a school.
In the school there was the classroom.
In the classroom there was the young teacher
Reciting the story:
'Once there was a school
In the school there was the classroom …’

(A school of standardized education.)


温暖的水獸's Version of The NeverEnding Story

Once there was the school.
In the school there was the classroom.
In the classroom there was the old teacher
Reciting a story:
'Once there was the school
In the school there was the classroom …’

(The school of authoritarian education)

Dundas' Version of The NeverEnding Story:

Once there was a school.
In the school there was the classroom.
In the classroom there was the young teacher
Reciting the story:
'Once there was a school
In the school there was the classroom …’
All of a sudden, he was stuck in the middle of a sentence, and felt his heart beat slow and his brain freeze. Unexpectedly, he fell down on the floor. The silence seized the whole class; then they ran out of the classroom, yelling for help.

(The collapse of a school of standardized education)

浴恩福's Version of The NeverEnding Story:

Once there was a mountain.
In the mountain there was a rundown school.
In the school there were abandoned classrooms
Covered by unknown weeds.
Silence and nature took full control of them.

(The abandonment of a school of cram education portrayed in Chen Kaige's King of Children)
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul


最后进行编辑的是 ericcoliu on 星期二 七月 01, 2008 8:06 am, 总计第 14 次编辑
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fanfan[FAFAFA]
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四品府丞
(封疆大吏也!)
四品府丞<BR>(封疆大吏也!)


注册时间: 2007-12-27
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帖子发表于: 星期二 六月 17, 2008 1:07 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

ericcoliu 写到:


Which version do you like better? “a” or “the” version.
Or a version of a mixed use of "a" and "the."




A poetic rendering of Chen Kaige’ 1988 deceptively simple film , King of Children.

The "a" version is OK while the "the" version is too depressing.
_________________
Don't imitate me;
it's as boring
as the two halves of a melon.
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星子[ANNA]
星子作品集

酷我!I made it!
酷我!I made it!


注册时间: 2004-06-05
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帖子发表于: 星期二 六月 17, 2008 2:12 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

Hi Eric,

This is like 中国儿谣,
从前有坐山,山上有个庙... 小时喜欢,现在不喜欢了.

很多故事和寓言富有哲理,所以才流传下来.
诗歌作为文学的提升,不仅需要哲理和寓意,还有感化和意境.


好奇地想问,这和我们小时听的从前有坐山,有什么区别呢?
只不过,一个在学校/教师,一个是庙/和尚 ?
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期二 六月 17, 2008 3:19 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

星子 写到:


This is like 中国儿谣,
从前有坐山,山上有个庙... 小时喜欢,现在不喜欢了.

很多故事和寓言富有哲理,所以才流传下来.
诗歌作为文学的提升,不仅需要哲理和寓意,还有感化和意境.


好奇地想问,这和我们小时听的从前有坐山,有什么区别呢?只不过,一个在学校/教师,一个是庙/和尚 ?


An old story needs to be read from a new perspective, and then an old story will become The NeverEnding Story which continue to "Distills amazing sense / From ordinary Meanings — / And Attar so immense" (Emily Dickinson's the 448th poem). That’s one of my intentions to write this poem.

Don’t forget the BIG DIFFERENCE between a text and a context.

The same text situated in different contexts means differently, not to mention two different texts, though bearing the seemingly same narrative structure, in different contexts.

Before I answer your question, you need to ask yourself what the key functional difference it is between a temple and a school in terms of edification of the people.

My poem is a literary rendering of and a response to one scene about story-telling from Chen Kaige’ 1988 film entitled King of Children, a scene in which an intellectual youth (zhiqing) tells his students 中国儿谣 -- "从前有坐山,山上有个庙... "

Now, one question for you, what semantic and social differences are caused by the choice of different articles in the case of The NeverEnding Story?

I hope I wrote a writerly not readerly text.

Thanks for the comment.
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul


最后进行编辑的是 ericcoliu on 星期三 六月 18, 2008 3:47 pm, 总计第 3 次编辑
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期二 六月 17, 2008 3:33 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

Reading Is Writing

While reading a poem
The unwritten is a hidden text
A text between the lines of verse
When that text is grasped
By the mind’s eye of the reader
A companion poem comes into being
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul


最后进行编辑的是 ericcoliu on 星期三 六月 18, 2008 3:48 pm, 总计第 2 次编辑
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星子[ANNA]
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酷我!I made it!


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来自: Toronto

帖子发表于: 星期二 六月 17, 2008 3:41 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

Hi Eric,

It is ok if you use your way to write it. But I doubt most of the readers can get it even after reading a few times.

Just like some words, some people can align them in a special way and claim them in different meanings.

Some people maybe like this kind.

Any way, I wrote the above, because I find many of yours like this kind, do you agree?
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期二 六月 17, 2008 5:34 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

星子 写到:
Hi Eric,

It is ok if you use your way to write it. But I doubt most of the readers can get it even after reading a few times.

Just like some words, some people can align them in a special way and claim them in different meanings.



Does it really matter? In my view, the writer’s responsibility is to do his/her best writing good literary works while the reader’s responsibility, if there is one, is to pay close attention to them.

For example, in the case of my poem, The NeverEnding Story, an attentive reader will at least ask the following questions:

1 NeverEnding is an English word which you cannot find in any English dictionary because it’s a word coined by the English translator of the German novel, Die unendliche Geschichte, written by Michael Ende. But you can find the compound word, never-ending, in any English dictionary. Why the translator coined this word?

2 What is/are the connotative meaning(s) of the title of the poem?

3 Since I openly admit I steal the title from the above-mentioned German novel, what is the intertexual relationship of my poem to it?

The questions I raise here constitute a part of the context in which I wrote my poem. Surely, it does not vindicate that I wrote a good poem. No, definitely not. I know my English writing capability, fully. I am just a beginner writer who has written in his adopted language for two years. Nonetheless, I proudly claim that I'm an attentive and demanding reader who definitely is a maker of a good writer. Just read the replies posted on coviews. I think you are so smart that you can fully get the points I intend to make here.

Thank you very much for reading and commenting my piece.
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul


最后进行编辑的是 ericcoliu on 星期三 六月 18, 2008 3:51 pm, 总计第 1 次编辑
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期三 六月 18, 2008 9:44 am    发表主题: 引用并回复

Poem Text of We Real Cool by Gwendolyn Brooks

THE POOL PLAYERS.
SEVEN AT THE GOLDEN SHOVEL.


We real cool. We
Left school. We

Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We

Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We

Jazz June. We
Die soon.


Thank Lake for sharing this musically wonderful and politically conscientious poem by Gwendolyn Brooks.

"In stead of asking myself “They ain’t in school,” I wonder how they feel about themselves. Perhaps, they might consider themselves contemptuous of the establishment or at least they want to feel contemptuous of the establishment.”
Yes, well said.

I can’t believe that this poem, as Brooks has pointed out, has been banned here and there because of the word “jazz” which some people have considered as the sexual reference.

Hi! 星子, we’re hearing the young teacher reciting the story: The NeverEnding Story.

Now, maybe you have a different view about "这和我们小时听的从前有坐山,有什么区别呢?只不过,一个在学校/教师,一个是庙/和尚?"
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anna[星子安娜]
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帖子发表于: 星期三 六月 18, 2008 10:11 am    发表主题: 引用并回复

Hi Eric,

I like to discuss.

Before I don't know what is the readerly/writerly text, now I google and found you may misunderstand these terms. since you said this one has many versions...and the same time, a readerly text.

ericcoliu 写到:


I hope I wrote a readerly not writerly text.



If "the neverending story" need readers to produce their own vision, so it should fall to "Writerly text", not readerly text, as I read the google result define these two terms.

Here is my google link

http://www.chester.ac.uk/~sjlewis/HumanBeing/Readerly&WriterlyTexts.htm

The French thinker Roland Barthes (1915-1980) describes an alternative approach to reading texts in which the reader can take a more active part. It is not just the author's intention, and the content of the text, but the reader who can give meaning to the text. Not all texts allow the reader this freedom. Those that do, Barthes refers to as writerly texts. A writerly (Fr. "scriptible") text is one that allows more than one way of being looked at by virtue of its not being full of pre-existent meanings. Alternatively, a text that is full of pre-existent meanings and so offers the reader little or no freedom is a readerly (Fr. "lisible") text which requires the adoption of a somewhat passive approach to reading.

http://journals.aol.co.uk/bang2write/thewriteway/entries/2006/03/05/writerlyreaderly---the-structure-of-the-narrative/899
_________________
---------------------

Anna Yin

《爱的灯塔-星子安娜双语诗选》
<Nightlights> <Seven Nights with the Chinese Zodiac> ...

http://annapoetry.com


最后进行编辑的是 anna on 星期三 六月 18, 2008 10:40 am, 总计第 4 次编辑
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帖子发表于: 星期三 六月 18, 2008 10:16 am    发表主题: 引用并回复

ericcoliu 写到:

Hi! 星子, we’re hearing the young teacher reciting the story: The NeverEnding Story.

Now, maybe you have a different view about "这和我们小时听的从前有坐山,有什么区别呢?只不过,一个在学校/教师,一个是庙/和尚?"


I agree there are two different scenes, but after I read, I still cannot get it.

For someone, monks or teachers reciting stories may be the same meaning.

Monks are also teachers to teach in their ways.

How about you tell me what you would like the readers to produce for this one? or you expect or you guess?

or if someone else wrote this, you as the reader, what do you get?
_________________
---------------------

Anna Yin

《爱的灯塔-星子安娜双语诗选》
<Nightlights> <Seven Nights with the Chinese Zodiac> ...

http://annapoetry.com
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
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帖子发表于: 星期三 六月 18, 2008 11:47 am    发表主题: 引用并回复

anna 写到:


Hi Eric,

I like to discuss.

Before I don't know what is the readerly/writerly text, now I google and found you may misunderstand these terms. since you said this one has many versions...and the same time, a readerly text.



Great! You're absolutely right. You're the only person who points out my "mistake" since I've promoted this idea few weeks ago. Surely, it excludes my Kierkegaardian Either/Or type of friends on this forum.

I intentionally made this mistake to see if anyone, who read or commented my pieces, would raise the question and find out the answer. Too many "thanks for sharing, " "thanks for the comment," "thanks" are floating on this forum. I respect you deep from the bottom of my heart for pointing out my intentional mistake.

Thanks you for your two valuable links. However, The flawness of their explanation of the idea of "the writerly / readerly text" is that both of them don’t read it into the context of Barthes' another groundbreaking idea -- Death of the Author, an essay first published in the American journal Aspen. As Barthes puts it well, "the death of the author is the birth of the reader." Now, you’re born again through your attentive and demanding reading of my piece. Good for you and me, surely for anyone who is serious about reading and writing.

An attentive and demanding reader definitely is a maker of a good writer.

I really hope you’ll be an attentive and demanding reader of the reviews of your poetry written by your fellow poets. I really hope you do so if you really mean what you’ve asked me about – "how’s my poetry." I don’t want to offend you, but I think you need to re-read Barker’s and Paul’s reviews of your poetry book. As for Barker's review, I had had a discussion with him few months ago about his review of your poetry book, which fully convinces me again of "An attentive and demanding reader definitely is a maker of a good writer."

Please, fear not, and point out my flawness and mistakes in writing and thinking. I'll truly thank you for doing so.
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul


最后进行编辑的是 ericcoliu on 星期三 六月 18, 2008 3:59 pm, 总计第 3 次编辑
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二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
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帖子发表于: 星期三 六月 18, 2008 12:01 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

anna 写到:


How about you tell me what you would like the readers to produce for this one? or you expect or you guess?

or if someone else wrote this, you as the reader, what do you get?


It's not a question of "if someone else wrote this, you as the reader, what do you get," but a question of "what am I, as a reader of The NeverEnding Story, going to write another version of it based on my view of the establishment -- support, opposition, suspicion, or indifference."

The NeverEnding Story is a writerly poem. Be the writer of your own. Forget about the viewpoint of anybody else.

By the way, the film adaptation of the novel is imaginatively fantastic. I believe you and your son definitely will love it. Trust me on this recommendation. It's my intention to steal the ttitle from this German novel, a title which constitutes the context of my writing and surely of your re-writing.
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul


最后进行编辑的是 ericcoliu on 星期三 六月 18, 2008 4:02 pm, 总计第 1 次编辑
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帖子发表于: 星期三 六月 18, 2008 12:19 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

ericcoliu 写到:



Please, fear not, and point out my flawness and mistakes in writing and thinking. I'll truly thank you for doing so.


first, flawness?

Second, it takes time to find one's own voice. That is why I raised my questions here. after reading yours, I am not sure.

Different people have different reviews on my poetry, some I will take, and some I don't. but I always thank them to write on their own willing and I post them here no matter what they say. I never ask them to make changes. For me, it is open, I remember, you once critique Paul didn't fully understand chinese culture but cast his review on my chapbook based on his wrong version on Confusgi? I post it anyway and didn't question him since I know everyone is different and has his own vision about chinese culture. I know many western poets like to define my culture background there, others define me an individual there. But they all agree the most important is I have the original voice, the authentic voice.

So, the same goes to everyone who wants to write. For me, I hope people write from heart.

ericcoliu 写到:

I intentionally made this mistake to see if anyone, who read or commented my pieces, would raise the question and find out the answer. Too many "thanks for sharing, " "thanks for the comment," "thanks" are floating on this forum. I respect you deep from the bottom of my heart for pointing out my intentional mistake.


I never intentionlly make a mistake to see if one can pick it up, since I trust others. Trust them for their comments, even one line. "Thanks".


Thank you for bringing the reviews and comments. I know I don't spend much time on them. The reason is I have too many plans ahead. But I do appreciate each comment.

These two months, Terry knows how busy I am.

Anyway, we have two different styles, comments are only comments, taking or tossing, are up to you.
_________________
---------------------

Anna Yin

《爱的灯塔-星子安娜双语诗选》
<Nightlights> <Seven Nights with the Chinese Zodiac> ...

http://annapoetry.com


最后进行编辑的是 anna on 星期三 六月 18, 2008 12:45 pm, 总计第 2 次编辑
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二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
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帖子发表于: 星期三 六月 18, 2008 12:43 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

anna 写到:


For me, it is open, like one, you once critique Paul didn't fully understand chinese culture? I post it anyway and didn't question him since I know everyone is different and has his own vision about chinese culture. I know many western poets like to define my culture background there, others define me an individual there. But thet all agree the most important is I have the original voice, the authentic voice.



The key flawness in Paul's review of your poetry book is that he has no clues about what the big difference between allusion and collage is and about what postmodernism is. Then, he uses his review of your poetry as a springboard to launch a vicious attack on his so-called postmodernist literature generally and Margaret Atwood's work particularly. Do you really read through and understand his review? Just ask anyone who teaches literature in the academic setting about his review

I'm serious about every word I've posted on this forum. For anyone who wants to be a serious writer, he/she should be attentive and sensitive to every word he/she or anyone else wrote.

However, I fully get your point. Thanks for you time spent on reading and commenting my work.
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul


最后进行编辑的是 ericcoliu on 星期三 六月 18, 2008 4:07 pm, 总计第 1 次编辑
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