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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集
二品总督
（刚入二品，小心做人）
注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada
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 发表于: 星期四 八月 21, 2008 7:24 am 发表主题: On Realizing He Has Written Some Bad Poems |
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An Interview with Terry Barker on the Poetics of People’s Poetry: On Realizing He Has Written Some Bad Poems
(Mr. Terry Barker studied political theory at McMaster and Oxford Universities. He currently teaches Canadian studies in the Ningbo China Program. He is the author of two collections of essays on the People's Poetry tradition, After Acorn (Mekler and Deahl, Hamilton and Pittsburgh, 1999) and Beyond Bethune (Synaxis Press, Dewdney, British Columbia, 2006). He is currently working on a sequel volume, Continuing Chesterton)
I am ashamed of you
my poems
you owe me something more
than you've given recently
my poems
you have forgotten your duty
which is to make me important
your function in this life
to march ahead of me
with fife and drum and skirling pipes
to encourage my own halting steps
my poems
your obligation is to cause people
to look at you and glimpse between your lines
indistinct and ambiguous my own face
enigmatic almost majestic certainly wise
my poems
your responsibility to lie about me and exaggerate me
allow me to bask in the esteem of a million readers
or a million in one
and so to shine under their focused intense regard
that my fossilized flesh will precede my dying
preclude my loving and replacing my actual living
......
my poems
you have betrayed your creator
i would discard you deny you condemn you
and since the life I have given you is not requited
the love I poured forth on you has not brought children
I will abandon you in some gutter blown by the wind
until the long rains beat on you and snow shall blur your meaning
......
my poems you have failed
but when I recovered from
this treachery to myself
I shall walk among the hills chanting
and celebrate my own failure
transformed to something else
-- Al Purdy, ‘On Realizing He Has Written Some Bad Poems,’ Beyond Remembering, 316-7.
In his ‘On Realizing He Has Written Some Bad Poems,’ Al Purdy, Canada’s ‘Voice of the Land’ as the League of Canadian Poets called him, interrogates the failure of his poems for creating successful images of the self, medi(t)ates on the relationship between language and identity, and keeps on hoping that his bumbling but endearing failures and treacheries will in time be “transformed to something else.” This is not merely a hope dearly kept by Purdy himself, but also a hope collectively held on to by Canadians who care deeply for the future of Canadian poetry and also by all poets who try to enrich and improve their poetry writing.
Today, I’m honoured to conduct an interactive interview with Mr. Terry Barker on the poetics of People’s Poetry. Any questions about or replies to our discussion on this are welcome.
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul
最后进行编辑的是 ericcoliu on 星期四 八月 21, 2008 7:43 am, 总计第 5 次编辑 |
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集
二品总督
（刚入二品，小心做人）
注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada
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| 发表于: 星期四 八月 21, 2008 7:27 am 发表主题: |
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Eric: In Anna’s interview with you, you stressed that “poetry is a mirror and it reflects the people, the society to which the people belong, and the health and sickness of the society.” Would you like to elaborate more on your view of poetry?
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul
最后进行编辑的是 ericcoliu on 星期四 八月 28, 2008 9:55 pm, 总计第 1 次编辑 |
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dundas[dundas]
dundas作品集
五品知州
（再努力一把就是四品大员了！）
注册时间: 2008-02-23
帖子: 214
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| 发表于: 星期四 八月 21, 2008 9:08 am 发表主题: |
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Hi! Eric:
Where is Barker's answer? Did you forget to post Barker's answer here?
I like On Realizing He Has Written Some Bad Poems.
| ericcoliu 写到: |
I am ashamed of you
my poems
you owe me something more
than you've given recently
my poems
you have forgotten your duty
which is to make me important
your function in this life
to march ahead of me
with fife and drum and skirling pipes
to encourage my own halting steps
my poems
your obligation is to cause people
to look at you and glimpse between your lines
indistinct and ambiguous my own face
enigmatic almost majestic certainly wise
my poems
your responsibility to lie about me and exaggerate me
allow me to bask in the esteem of a million readers
or a million in one
and so to shine under their focused intense regard
that my fossilized flesh will precede my dying
preclude my loving and replacing my actual living
|
Manifesto of Meist Poetry!?
_________________
My throat knew thirst before the structure
Of skin and vein around the well |
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集
二品总督
（刚入二品，小心做人）
注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada
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| 发表于: 星期四 八月 21, 2008 10:16 am 发表主题: |
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| dundas 写到: |
Hi! Eric:
Where is Barker's answer? Did you forget to post Barker's answer here? |
Just be patient. You'll definitely get a well thought out answer from Mr. Barker late this afternoon (Now, I'm going to meet him in Toronto and to teach him how to use Coviews' system to communicate with participants here)
| dundas 写到: |
Manifesto of Meist Poetry!? |
Glad you like this poem.
Your response reminds me of your previously posted poem, English Garden, my reflection on the recent heated debates among fellow poets
English Garden --
A small pond where lone poets,
drunk with desire and longing,
sit alone and reflect upon themselves.
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul |
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TerryBarker[TerryBarker]
TerryBarker作品集
秀才
（恭喜您迈出害羞的第一步！）
注册时间: 2008-08-21
帖子: 1
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| 发表于: 星期四 八月 21, 2008 2:38 pm 发表主题: |
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| ericcoliu 写到: | | Eric: In Anna’s interview with you, you stressed that “poetry is a mirror and it reflects the people, the society to which the people belong, and the health and sickness of the society.” Would you like to elaborate more on your view of poetry? |
What I was thinking of here is the remark of Eric Voegelin (in his Conversations given in Montreal) to the effect that he "trusted poetry". What he meant by this, I think, is that poets in their expressions are unable to falsify the experiences that are occuring in the "depth of their consciousnesses". To write at all , the individual must interact with this "depth" , and this interaction may involve a genuine "diving" down into the depth to find symbols that express/ represent one's experience, or may mimic this , for example, by "peopling" the depth with symbols of his/her own devising (like Carl Jung?), or positing processes in the depth( like Schelling ?). Purdy's poem describes a complex structure of consciousness, I think, that Voegelin calls "honest dishonesty". Purdy knows that he has written "some bad poems", but engages in a thought process (which he admits) that tries to make this series of symbols serve his purpose for them(i.e. to "make me important"). This leads him to "celebrate his failure" as if it were a success, which transforms the failure, as he says. The move is a variety of the Nietzschean "extending of forgiveness to oneself" strategy.
Purdy's work comes at the end of Canadian People's Poetry, I think, after the notion of "the people", both in the sense of the "common people", and in its meaning of a historically distinct people had atrophied in this country. Purdy is clearly trying to find some new meaning for the people, or, at least, for himself, and more or less declaring the impossibility of doing so.
_________________
the order of history is the history of order. |
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anna[星子安娜]
anna作品集
Site Admin
注册时间: 2004-05-02
帖子: 7141
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| 发表于: 星期四 八月 21, 2008 9:30 pm 发表主题: |
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Thank you Eric and Terry for discussion.
Though everyone read poems in a different way, with help of discussion and review, more meaningful ideas and skills are captured and highlighed.
_________________
---------------------
Anna Yin
《爱的灯塔-星子安娜双语诗选》
<Nightlights> <Seven Nights with the Chinese Zodiac> ...
http://annapoetry.com |
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集
二品总督
（刚入二品，小心做人）
注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada
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| 发表于: 星期五 八月 22, 2008 4:33 pm 发表主题: |
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| TerryBarker 写到: |
Purdy's poem describes a complex structure of consciousness, I think, that Voegelin calls "honest dishonesty". Purdy knows that he has written "some bad poems", but engages in a thought process (which he admits) that tries to make this series of symbols serve his purpose for them(i.e. to "make me important"). This leads him to "celebrate his failure" as if it were a success, which transforms the failure, as he says. The move is a variety of the Nietzschean "extending of forgiveness to oneself" strategy.
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I didn’t read this poem from a Voegelinian framework like Mr. Barker did; instead, I read it from the perspective of identity formation. What this poem reveals is that language will always have its way over us and that it will ultimately exposes the lies and exaggerations (“lie about me and exaggerate me / allow me to bask in the esteem of a million readers”) that we beg from it. In the end, Purdy’s persona doesn’t leave himself trapped in the “prison-house language” (a Fredric Jameson’s phrase) (“when I recovered from / this treachery to myself / I shall walk among the hills chanting / and celebrate my own failure”), but realizes that language’s triumph is also his own, since both can be infinitely generative (“transformed to something else”).
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul |
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christine[christine]
christine作品集
四品府丞
（封疆大吏也！）
注册时间: 2008-02-25
帖子: 304
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| 发表于: 星期六 八月 23, 2008 3:30 pm 发表主题: |
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| TerryBarker 写到: |
What I was thinking of here is the remark of Eric Voegelin (in his Conversations given in Montreal) to the effect that he "trusted poetry". What he meant by this, I think, is that poets in their expressions are unable to falsify the experiences that are occuring in the "depth of their consciousnesses". |
What do you mean by "depth of their consciousnesses?" Do you mean something like Jung's concept of collective unconsciousness? |
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fanfan[FAFAFA]
fanfan作品集
四品府丞
（封疆大吏也！）
注册时间: 2007-12-27
帖子: 353
来自: Canada
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| 发表于: 星期一 八月 25, 2008 10:22 pm 发表主题: |
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| dundas 写到: |
I like On Realizing He Has Written Some Bad Poems.
| ericcoliu 写到: |
I am ashamed of you
my poems
you owe me something more
than you've given recently
my poems
you have forgotten your duty
which is to make me important
your function in this life
to march ahead of me
with fife and drum and skirling pipes
to encourage my own halting steps
my poems
your obligation is to cause people
to look at you and glimpse between your lines
indistinct and ambiguous my own face
enigmatic almost majestic certainly wise
my poems
your responsibility to lie about me and exaggerate me
allow me to bask in the esteem of a million readers
or a million in one
and so to shine under their focused intense regard
that my fossilized flesh will precede my dying
preclude my loving and replacing my actual living
|
Manifesto of Meist Poetry!? |
In the Voegelinian sense, this type of poetry symbolizes deformations of human consciousness.
_________________
Don't imitate me;
it's as boring
as the two halves of a melon. |
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dundas[dundas]
dundas作品集
五品知州
（再努力一把就是四品大员了！）
注册时间: 2008-02-23
帖子: 214
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| 发表于: 星期二 八月 26, 2008 7:04 pm 发表主题: |
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| fanfan 写到: |
In the Voegelinian sense, this type of poetry symbolizes deformations of human consciousness. |
What does consciousness mean in the Voegelinian sense? A sense of one's personal or collective identity, including the attitudes, beliefs, and sensitivities held by or considered characteristic of an individual or group?
_________________
My throat knew thirst before the structure
Of skin and vein around the well |
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集
二品总督
（刚入二品，小心做人）
注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada
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| 发表于: 星期四 八月 28, 2008 10:01 pm 发表主题: |
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Following the thread of our discussion, I found that some of our participants are interested in getting a grip on Voegelin's concept of "human consciousness."
Below is my second question for Mr. Barker:
In your reading of Al Purdy's 'On Realizing He Has Written Some Bad Poems," Voegelin's concept of consciousness is your interpretative framework. Can you elaborate more on it? What is the relationship between human consciousness and a literary work? And how does this concept shape your view of Canadian People's Poetry?
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul |
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温暖的水獸[温暖的水獸]
温暖的水獸作品集
五品知州
（再努力一把就是四品大员了！）
注册时间: 2008-04-23
帖子: 153
来自: 水族箱
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| 发表于: 星期四 九月 04, 2008 1:14 pm 发表主题: |
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Where is Mr. Barker's answer?
Hi! Eric:
Can you this type of interview as an interactive one?
_________________
舌頭那匹温暖的水獸 馴養地在小小的水族箱中 蠕動
那獸說：是的 我願意 |
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