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不清[不清] 不清作品集 二品总督 (刚入二品,小心做人)
注册时间: 2006-03-22 帖子: 1364
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发表于: 星期四 九月 21, 2006 12:24 pm 发表主题: 什麼是詩 What is Poetry -- by John Ashbery |
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What is Poetry
by John Ashbery (1927- )
The medieval town, with frieze
Of boy scouts from Nagoya? The snow
That came when we wanted it to snow?
Beautiful images? Trying to avoid
Ideas, as in this poem? But we
Go back to them as to a wife, leaving
The mistress we desire? Now they
Will have to believe it
As we believed it. In school
All the thought got combed out:
What was left was like a field.
Shut your eyes, and you can feel it for miles around.
Now open them on a thin vertical path.
It might give us--what?--some flowers soon?
什麼是詩 約翰‧艾許貝理
來自名古屋的童子軍像壁緣
排列於中世紀的城鎮內?正當
我們期盼下雪的時候就下雪?
很動人的情景嗎?試圖迴避思考
和意義,就如這首詩一樣?可是我們又要
故地重遊,正如丈夫離開一直渴求的情婦
回到妻子身邊?現在他們
將需要信心
正如我們也需要相信。在校園裡
一切的想法都從髮絲上一一的被梳走:
遺留下來的仿如一片田野。
緊閉你的眼睛,你就能盡情地感知幾公里外的東西
現在,沿著狹窄險峭的小徑把它們開啟
它可能送給我們──什麼?──幾束鮮紅?
試譯於2004年3月 _________________ 「四十二排浪,沒有一排是相似的」——不清
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anna[星子安娜] anna作品集 Site Admin
注册时间: 2004-05-02 帖子: 7141
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发表于: 星期五 九月 22, 2006 1:29 pm 发表主题: |
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thanks... will take a look soon _________________ ---------------------
Anna Yin
《爱的灯塔-星子安娜双语诗选》
<Nightlights> <Seven Nights with the Chinese Zodiac> ...
http://annapoetry.com |
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Lake[Lake] Lake作品集 二品总督 (刚入二品,小心做人)
注册时间: 2006-10-10 帖子: 1341 来自: Sky Blue Water
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发表于: 星期四 十月 12, 2006 3:20 pm 发表主题: |
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不清, I thought this might interest you. Enjoy.
(A Translation of John Ashbery's) "WHAT IS POETRY"
by Jill E. Brown (April 1995)
Should we really call traditional verse with its ornamentation and
elaborate description poetry?
Can the acts of nature be forced into a linguistic box and then called
poetry?
Why does one feel compelled to control nature by demarcating it with
imagery and lofty symbolism?
If it snows, it snows. We have no control over it. Forget about the
pretentious attempts to characterize it.
Is it possible to forget about ideas altogether (like I am trying to here)?
I don't understand why poets revert back to tradition when we see the
possiblility in new forms. How can they not see the inadequacy of
tradtitional poetry as we, the New York Poets, so plainly see?
It goes back to school, where they try to teach you to abandon
creativity.
The mind is like a vast field full of life, potential, and possibility.
But they teach you not to see this and instead focus on a narrow
path of traditional bull shit. And that's all it is: SHIT. The
only purpose it serves is to fertiliz the field and grow
more precious flowers to describe in their endless
cycle of bull shit.
读了几遍也是“不清”,直到读了上面的translation |
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不清[不清] 不清作品集 二品总督 (刚入二品,小心做人)
注册时间: 2006-03-22 帖子: 1364
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发表于: 星期四 十月 12, 2006 11:58 pm 发表主题: |
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謝謝lake,其實ashbery這首不難明!看他的self-portait便辛苦多了 不過也謝謝你的說文。 _________________ 「四十二排浪,沒有一排是相似的」——不清
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Lake[Lake] Lake作品集 二品总督 (刚入二品,小心做人)
注册时间: 2006-10-10 帖子: 1341 来自: Sky Blue Water
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发表于: 星期日 十月 15, 2006 1:28 am 发表主题: |
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不清 写到: | 謝謝lake,其實ashbery這首不難明! |
咳,只能说明自己的功底浅呗. 读完第一遍后, 我真不懂他那些疑问句到底要表达什么意思. 待读了Jill's translation 才有所醒悟. 同时想起一本书上讲的: 有没有读懂一首诗, 就看你能否 paraphrase. 一点儿不错.
My nitpicks:
1 引用: | Now they
Will have to believe it
As we believed it.
現在他們
將需要信心
正如我們也需要相信。 |
Need to pay attention to the past tense in 'believed'. An alternative: 現在他們也要相信, 正如我們(过去)相信的那样.
2
引用: | Shut your eyes, and you can feel it for miles around.
Now open them on a thin vertical path.
緊閉你的眼睛,你就能盡情地感知幾公里外的東西
現在,沿著狹窄險峭的小徑把它們開啟 |
'them'----> eyes, therefore, 闭上眼睛, 睁开眼睛(把眼睛打开) sounds more natural.
Please let me know what you think. Thanks for sharing. |
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不清[不清] 不清作品集 二品总督 (刚入二品,小心做人)
注册时间: 2006-03-22 帖子: 1364
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发表于: 星期日 十月 15, 2006 8:44 am 发表主题: |
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thanks for your input, Lake. Yeah, my translation was done back in 2004, and it wasn't a very good one for sure. I will try to fix it up and show you.
Have you came across with this interview of Ashbery done by Daniel Kane? Ashbery talked about this poem "What is Poetry" himself. I think you will be very much interested!
http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88v/ashbery-interview.html _________________ 「四十二排浪,沒有一排是相似的」——不清
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Lake[Lake] Lake作品集 二品总督 (刚入二品,小心做人)
注册时间: 2006-10-10 帖子: 1341 来自: Sky Blue Water
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发表于: 星期一 十月 16, 2006 1:09 pm 发表主题: |
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Thanks for the link, 不清. It was an enjoyble read and I walked away with some new ideas on poetry writing. Thanks again.
And by the way, you are doing good. |
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不清[不清] 不清作品集 二品总督 (刚入二品,小心做人)
注册时间: 2006-03-22 帖子: 1364
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发表于: 星期一 十月 16, 2006 1:14 pm 发表主题: |
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Lake 写到: | Thanks for the link, 不清. It was an enjoyble read and I walked away with some new ideas on poetry writing. Thanks again.
And by the way, you are doing good. |
Thanks Lake. So are you a Fan of Ashbery? I sure AM! I also like John Berryman's stuff. _________________ 「四十二排浪,沒有一排是相似的」——不清
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frankjiang[江 南] frankjiang作品集 二品总督总管 (回首人生,前途在望)
注册时间: 2005-08-07 帖子: 2266 来自: Toronto
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发表于: 星期一 十月 16, 2006 2:53 pm 发表主题: |
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英文诗看起来我的理解还是不行,都中文的感觉就好多了
多谢不清 _________________ 快乐在诗里,感觉在舞中
微信:jcdfrank
公司网站:www.kaideed.com
加拿大凯谛留学移民签证中心
blogs:
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星子[ANNA] 星子作品集 酷我!I made it!
注册时间: 2004-06-05 帖子: 13192 来自: Toronto
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发表于: 星期一 十月 16, 2006 3:31 pm 发表主题: |
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Now they
Will have to believe it
As we believed it. In school
All the thought got combed out:
What was left was like a field.
Shut your eyes, and you can feel it for miles around.
Now open them on a thin vertical path.
It might give us--what?--some flowers soon?
----I agree poetry cannot be taught, but to feel.
When your thought is taught and narrawed, there is not much way to unveil the beauty of poetry. What you write would be hollow. _________________
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Lake[Lake] Lake作品集 二品总督 (刚入二品,小心做人)
注册时间: 2006-10-10 帖子: 1341 来自: Sky Blue Water
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发表于: 星期二 十月 17, 2006 2:22 pm 发表主题: |
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I especially liked how John Ashbery made up images in his poem, which reminded me of some works of another poet, and also the idea of beginning a poem without really knowing what's going to come out of it. That way, the poem will give the reader a turn, a surprise instead of a predictable boring ending.
不清, frankly speaking, it is the first poem from John Ashbery I read. Thank you for intruducing him. At present, I am not a particular fan of any poets (though I do like some poets over the others), as I think each poet has his own trait and each poet may influence you in your different stages of life. But now, if you like one, stick with him, love him; and when you 'get tired of him', start looking for another one. This may sound like nonsense.
I have read very little, that's for SURE. |
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长篙[99] 长篙作品集 二品总督总管 (回首人生,前途在望)
注册时间: 2005-10-23 帖子: 3390 来自: 中国湖南
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发表于: 星期四 十月 26, 2006 5:45 pm 发表主题: |
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不清,感觉不是很顺哦?忠不忠实原文啊? _________________ 忘掉写诗,你才开始真正写诗;詩無定法,隨性而安
長篙诗歌自然門
http://blog.sina.com.cn/99GG |
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老哈[老哈] 老哈作品集 八品县丞 (又一个不小心,升了!)
注册时间: 2006-02-27 帖子: 60 来自: NEVADA, USA
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发表于: 星期四 十月 26, 2006 6:14 pm 发表主题: |
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星子 写到: | ----I agree poetry cannot be taught, but to feel. |
I agree! _________________ 掠过天堂刹那间的感觉 |
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不清[不清] 不清作品集 二品总督 (刚入二品,小心做人)
注册时间: 2006-03-22 帖子: 1364
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发表于: 星期四 十月 26, 2006 6:16 pm 发表主题: |
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长篙 写到: | 不清,感觉不是很顺哦?忠不忠实原文啊? |
內容大致忠於原文,可能是我的翻譯功夫做得不好。
下次上戴馬永波的版本。 _________________ 「四十二排浪,沒有一排是相似的」——不清
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