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Why believe you can write verse in English? (Haibun)

 
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期日 十月 12, 2008 8:06 pm    发表主题: Why believe you can write verse in English? (Haibun) 引用并回复

Reading and Writing: Life on the Page


Why believe you can write verse in English? (Contemporary Haibun -- Japanese Prose Poem)

To write verse in English is not like growing ideograms inside your heart, reaping the sentences matured by the muse of desire, taking your clothes off with words, and exposing yourself in the rhythm of the stanzas so that you can hold your passport and cross the borders of linguistic solitudes, emigrating from ideographic to alphabetic.

No, it’s not like that. English is not your mother tongue. It remains an unmastered means of deciphering the musings of your mind and heart, and it is constantly intruded upon and twisted with inflections from the old language. Oftentimes, you are not able to connect emotions to words, to feel the weight of their syllables. Without emotional vocabulary, everything becomes elusion, confusion, and the fear of things you needn’t be afraid of.

Even if you find the right words to reflect your feelings, you are not skilled at weaving these words into sentences, freeing your thoughts from inertia. The words simply become the isolated cries of a wandering soul clutching desperately at your heart. Why believe you can write verse in English, whose music is not natural to you?


English, your anguish,
gives you misty eyes, with which
you write verse in english.
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul


最后进行编辑的是 ericcoliu on 星期五 十二月 26, 2008 3:38 pm, 总计第 4 次编辑
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期日 十月 12, 2008 8:08 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

Why believe you can write verse in English,
whose music is not natural to you?


These two lines are taken from A Free Life by Ha Jin:


You have been misled by your folly,
determined to follow the footsteps of Conrad
and Nabokov. You have forgotten
they were white Europeans.
Remember your yellow face
and your puny talent—unlikely
to make you a late bloomer.
Why believe you can write verse in English,
whose music is not natural to you?
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul
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Champagne[Champagne]
Champagne作品集

四品府丞
(封疆大吏也!)
四品府丞<BR>(封疆大吏也!)


注册时间: 2007-09-15
帖子: 394
来自: Nowhere & Everywhere

帖子发表于: 星期一 十月 13, 2008 8:35 am    发表主题: Re: Why believe you can write verse in English? (Haibun) 引用并回复

ericcoliu 写到:


Reading, Writing, and Life on the Page


Why believe you can write verse in English? (Contemporary Haibun -- Japanese Prose Poem)

To write verse in English is not like growing ideograms inside your heart, reaping the sentences matured by the muse of desire, taking your clothes off with words, and exposing yourself in the rhythm of the stanzas so that you can hold your passport and cross the borders of linguistic solitudes, emigrating from ideographic to alphabetic.



I like your notion of "writing in English (an adopted language) as a migratory process."
_________________
I'm Champagne,
Bottled poetry with sparkling joy.
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期一 十月 13, 2008 8:58 am    发表主题: Re: Why believe you can write verse in English? (Haibun) 引用并回复

Champagne 写到:



I like your notion of "writing in English (an adopted language) as a migratory process."


For me, writing in English is like a migratory process of moving out, coming in, going back, moving on, and staying put over the spacio-tempo-linguistic territory of my encounters with the inner self, significant others, and life events. It is the key to help chart my journey of immigration: the only way to work through my inner turmoil caused by my displaced experiences and to reach out to the bigger society around me. Maybe the end of my writing will arrive where I started, and I will know what life writing in English means to me for the first time.
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Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul
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温暖的水獸[温暖的水獸]
温暖的水獸作品集

五品知州
(再努力一把就是四品大员了!)
五品知州<BR>(再努力一把就是四品大员了!)


注册时间: 2008-04-23
帖子: 153
来自: 水族箱

帖子发表于: 星期二 十月 14, 2008 12:28 pm    发表主题: Re: Why believe you can write verse in English? (Haibun) 引用并回复

ericcoliu 写到:


Reading, Writing, and Life on the Page


Why believe you can write verse in English? (Contemporary Haibun -- Japanese Prose Poem)

With which you write verse in english.


So you did write verse in English.

That's classic British understatement.

english? Trying to personalize or privatize English?
_________________
舌頭那匹温暖的水獸 馴養地在小小的水族箱中 蠕動
那獸說:是的 我願意
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Lake[Lake]
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二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2006-10-10
帖子: 1341
来自: Sky Blue Water

帖子发表于: 星期二 十月 14, 2008 9:36 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

I have to admit even when I write in my mother tongue, my words fail me let alone to write in a foreign language. But, but, I still write verses though not in good English. Laughing


English, your anguish,
gives you misty eyes, with which
you write in english.
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期二 十月 14, 2008 10:46 pm    发表主题: Re: Why believe you can write verse in English? (Haibun) 引用并回复

温暖的水獸 写到:


That's classic British understatement.



You just made me glow from your compliment, thank you !

温暖的水獸 写到:


english? Trying to personalize or privatize English?


I'm trying to personalize English.

By the way, how can one privatize English?
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期二 十月 14, 2008 10:48 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

Lake 写到:


I still write verses though not in good English.


English, your anguish,
gives you misty eyes, with which
you write in english.


Lake,

Your English is far more better than mine.

Thanks for the read and your helpful suggestion.
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Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期三 十月 15, 2008 7:37 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

The following are the replies from my poet friends at Wild Poetry Forum:

Chen-ou, your studies have reflected very well upon you and I enjoyed your prose poem very much. I've always wanted to know what it was like from the other side. I have noticed that you are very precise.
-- Kathryn

I will echo the words of others and say how eloquent you are. You are too critical and don't see that you articulate your thoughts well in any language and I can only imagine were i able to read your thoughts in your native tongue how much closer I might get to the source--but I don't feel there is any deficiency because the truth is, the essence of someone's being, can be conveyed with even a rudimentary understanding of another language. I see it often.

-- emusing
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Lake[Lake]
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二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2006-10-10
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来自: Sky Blue Water

帖子发表于: 星期三 十月 15, 2008 7:52 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

hoho, "Just remember never to underestimate yourself, it can sometimes prove to be just as detrimental as overestimation." This is what my friend said to me when he invited me to post in their Experienced section. I appreciate his words and think what he said suits you as well.
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
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二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
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来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期四 十月 16, 2008 1:12 pm    发表主题: 引用并回复

Hi! Lake:

Thanks for your insightful advice.

This piece mainly grew out of my on-going struggle with learning English and was my response to Ha Jin's view of the language issue explored in immigrant literature, an issue which, strangely enough, is seldom discussed by my fellow writers at English Garden.

For Ha Jin, the most important work of immigrant literature is Nabokov's Pnin, which, as he said, "deals with the question of language, and I think that's at the core of the immigrant experience: how to learn the language--or give up learning the language!--but without the absolute mastery of the language, which is impossible for an immigrant. Your life is always affected by the insufficiency."


In an afterword to Lolita, Vladimir Nabokov concludes with a reference to his beloved first language, which he abandoned as a writer once he moved to the United States in 1940:

"My private tragedy, …… is that I had to abandon my natural idiom, my untrammelled, rich, and infinitely docile Russian tongue for a second-rate brand of English."
_________________
Time is nothing but a disquiet of the soul
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川生[川生]
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七品按察司
(我开始管这里的事儿了)
七品按察司<BR>(我开始管这里的事儿了)


注册时间: 2008-09-18
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帖子发表于: 星期五 十月 17, 2008 8:24 am    发表主题: 引用并回复

ericcoliu 写到:


For Ha Jin, the most important work of immigrant literature is Nabokov's Pnin, which, as he said, "deals with the question of language, and I think that's at the core of the immigrant experience: how to learn the language--or give up learning the language!--but without the absolute mastery of the language, which is impossible for an immigrant. Your life is always affected by the insufficiency."


In an afterword to Lolita, Vladimir Nabokov concludes with a reference to his beloved first language, which he abandoned as a writer once he moved to the United States in 1940:

"My private tragedy, …… is that I had to abandon my natural idiom, my untrammelled, rich, and infinitely docile Russian tongue for a second-rate brand of English."


This is a private tragedy for anyone who in/voluntarily gives up his mother tongue.

This insufficiency or unfluency in one's adopted language has resulted in psychological or spiritual distresses.
_________________
Lines go off in all directions.
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川生[川生]
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七品按察司
(我开始管这里的事儿了)
七品按察司<BR>(我开始管这里的事儿了)


注册时间: 2008-09-18
帖子: 72

帖子发表于: 星期五 十月 17, 2008 8:25 am    发表主题: 引用并回复

ericcoliu 写到:


For Ha Jin, the most important work of immigrant literature is Nabokov's Pnin, which, as he said, "deals with the question of language, and I think that's at the core of the immigrant experience: how to learn the language--or give up learning the language!--but without the absolute mastery of the language, which is impossible for an immigrant. Your life is always affected by the insufficiency."


In an afterword to Lolita, Vladimir Nabokov concludes with a reference to his beloved first language, which he abandoned as a writer once he moved to the United States in 1940:

"My private tragedy, …… is that I had to abandon my natural idiom, my untrammelled, rich, and infinitely docile Russian tongue for a second-rate brand of English."


This is a private tragedy for anyone who in/voluntarily gives up his mother tongue.

This insufficiency or unfluency in one's adopted language has resulted in psychological or spiritual distresses.
_________________
Lines go off in all directions.
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川生[川生]
川生作品集

七品按察司
(我开始管这里的事儿了)
七品按察司<BR>(我开始管这里的事儿了)


注册时间: 2008-09-18
帖子: 72

帖子发表于: 星期五 十月 17, 2008 8:25 am    发表主题: 引用并回复

ericcoliu 写到:


For Ha Jin, the most important work of immigrant literature is Nabokov's Pnin, which, as he said, "deals with the question of language, and I think that's at the core of the immigrant experience: how to learn the language--or give up learning the language!--but without the absolute mastery of the language, which is impossible for an immigrant. Your life is always affected by the insufficiency."


In an afterword to Lolita, Vladimir Nabokov concludes with a reference to his beloved first language, which he abandoned as a writer once he moved to the United States in 1940:

"My private tragedy, …… is that I had to abandon my natural idiom, my untrammelled, rich, and infinitely docile Russian tongue for a second-rate brand of English."


This is a private tragedy for anyone who in/voluntarily gives up his mother tongue.

This insufficiency or unfluency in one's adopted language has resulted in psychological or spiritual distresses.

ericcoliu 写到:


Even if you find the right words to reflect your feelings, you are not skilled at weaving these words into sentences, freeing your thoughts from inertia. The words simply become the isolated cries of a wandering soul clutching desperately at your heart. Why believe you can write verse in English, whose music is not natural to you?

_________________
Lines go off in all directions.
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ericcoliu[ericcoliu]
ericcoliu作品集

二品总督
(刚入二品,小心做人)
二品总督<BR>(刚入二品,小心做人)


注册时间: 2007-05-29
帖子: 1393
来自: GTA, Canada

帖子发表于: 星期日 十月 19, 2008 10:09 am    发表主题: 引用并回复

川生 写到:


This insufficiency or unfluency in one's adopted language has resulted in psychological or spiritual distresses.



YES.

"The organs concerned in the production of English speech sounds are the larynx, the velum, the lips, the tongue (that punchinello in the troupe), and, last but not least, the lower jaw; mainly upon its overenergetic and somewhat ruminant motion did Pnin rely when translating in class passages in the Russian grammar or some poem by Pushkin. If his Russian was music, his English was murder." (Pnin, p.66)

Pnin narrates linguistic dysfunction and the frustration of continually running up against its limits, and it presents a different version of language: a language in pain.



年冬天当我的小说《自由生活》(A Free Life) 出版后,约翰•厄普代克在《纽约客》上作了评论,并列举了一些语句作为“ 小违规例子”。[16] 中文媒体广泛报道了这篇评论,因为厄普代克在中国被尊敬为美国著名文人。互联网上有一些关于厄普代克列举的词语的讨论,但懂英文的中国人看不出那些用法有什么不妥。人们提供不同的解释,但都没有说服力。事实上,如果你每到一处都遇上对官场和职位极度关注的人,你怎能说用“官迷(emplomaniac)” 这个词不恰当呢?这样的词语也许使英文耳朵觉得陌生,但在中国语境中它是唯一合适的词语。轻微一点的词可能是“职位追求者(office seeker)”,但它未表达出过分在意和疯狂。

一旦我们在小说中进入外国领土,标准英语可能不得不延伸以便覆盖新的版图。最终,这是一种扩充语言能量的方式。

中国人里面也有一些对我使用英语方式的误解。人们常常说我直接翻译汉语成语。这是不真实的。我确实使用了相当数量的汉语成语,因为我的人物大部分讲汉语,但我在每一处都把成语作了些改变,有时候改动很大,以适应语境、剧情、和叙述的流畅。中国成语说一个男人自不量力地梦想一位漂亮女人是“癞蛤蟆想吃天鹅肉 ”,我在小说里至少用了两次这个成语,但我是这样表达的:“癞蛤蟆梦想擒天鹅”。“肉包子打狗”是一个汉语成语,指没有好结果的冒险,我把它这样变成英文:“用肉丸子打狗——没有回报”。大多数时候我根据故事的上下文来剪裁成语。

另一项批评是,我的英语太贫乏、太简单。用一位英语教授的话来说是“四级”,也就是本科水平。在这个例子里,那些中国人把标准英语看为准绳——50美金的字你用得越多,你的英文就越好。他们未能理解像我这类的作家不是在字典的范围内写作。我们在英语的边缘地带、在语言和语言之间的空隙中写作,因此,我们的能力和成就不能只以对标准英语的掌握来衡量。

-- 哈金演讲稿:为外语腔调辩护
_________________
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