酷我-北美枫

[LavenderSwing]

月下独酌
花间一壶酒 独酌无相亲
举杯邀明月 对影成三人
月既不解饮 影徒随我身
暂伴月将影 行乐须及春
我歌月徘徊 我舞影零乱
醒时同交欢 醉後各分散
永结无情游 相期邈云汉
1)
Drinking Alone with the Moon
From a pot of wine among the flowers
I drank alone.There was no one with me --
Till raising my cup, I ask the bright moon
To bring me my shadow and make us three.
Alas, the moon was unable to drink
And my shadow tagged me vacantly;
But still for a while I had these friends
To cheer me through the end of spring....
I sang. The moon encouraged me
I danced. My shadow tumbled after.
As long as I knew, we were born companions.
And then I was drunk, and we lost one another.
....Shall goodwill ever be secure?
I watch the long road of the River of Stars.

2)
1
A cup of wine, under the flowering trees;
I drink alone, for no friend is near.
Raising my cup I beckon the bright moon,
For he, with my shadow, will make three men.
The moon, alas, is no drinker of wine;
Listless, my shadow creeps about at my side.
Yet with the moon as friend and the shadow as slave
I must make merry before the Spring is spent.
To the songs I sing the moon flickers her beams;
In the dance I weave my shadow tangles and breaks.
While we were sober, three shared the fun;
Now we are drunk, each goes his way.
May we long share our odd, inanimate feast,
And meet at last on the Cloudy River of the sky.(i)

[[我还没有昵称]]

月下独酌
花间一壶酒 独酌无相亲
举杯邀明月 对影成三人
月既不解饮 影徒随我身
暂伴月将影 行乐须及春
我歌月徘徊 我舞影零乱
醒时同交欢 醉後各分散
永结无情游 相期邈云汉
1)
Drinking Alone with the Moon
From a pot of wine among the flowers
I drank alone.There was no one with me --
Till raising my cup, I ask the bright moon
To bring me my shadow and make us three.
Alas, the moon was unable to drink
And my shadow tagged me vacantly;
But still for a while I had these friends
To cheer me through the end of spring....
I sang. The moon encouraged me
I danced. My shadow tumbled after.
As long as I knew, we were born companions.
And then I was drunk, and we lost one another.
....Shall goodwill ever be secure?
I watch the long road of the River of Stars.

2)
1
A cup of wine, under the flowering trees;
I drink alone, for no friend is near.
Raising my cup I beckon the bright moon,
For he, with my shadow, will make three men.
The moon, alas, is no drinker of wine;
Listless, my shadow creeps about at my side.
Yet with the moon as friend and the shadow as slave
I must make merry before the Spring is spent.
To the songs I sing the moon flickers her beams;
In the dance I weave my shadow tangles and breaks.
While we were sober, three shared the fun;
Now we are drunk, each goes his way.
May we long share our odd, inanimate feast,
And meet at last on the Cloudy River of the sky.(i)

[何兆龙]

我来试试

Flowers around, wine in hand
Drink alone, without a friend
Raise my cup to invite the moon, if you are free
Together with my shadow, we are three

How can the moon take a swallow
and my shadow merely knows to follow
Still, take them as pals since no others to look for
Pleasure must be sought before spring is over

I sing, the moon lingers along
I dance, my shadow moves around
Sober, together we are happy and .
Drunk, we part and stagger away

Let us pledge a friendship above worldly love
And meet next time sky above.

[[南音]]

我来试试

Flowers around, wine in hand
Drink alone, without a friend
Raise my cup to invite the moon, if you are free
Together with my shadow, we are three

How can the moon take a swallow
and my shadow merely knows to follow
Still, take them as pals since no others to look for
Pleasure must be sought before spring is over

I sing, the moon lingers along
I dance, my shadow moves around
Sober, together we are happy and .
Drunk, we part and stagger away

Let us pledge a friendship above worldly love
And meet next time sky above.

[星子]

何老师出手就是不凡，，继续，该出手时就出手！
_________________

[[ANNA]]

何老师出手就是不凡，，继续，该出手时就出手！
_________________

[何兆龙]

哪位能找到许渊冲先生的<唐宋诗150首>,这本书里面一定有这首诗, IF can 把许先生的译本放上来，将不胜感激。

[[南音]]

哪位能找到许渊冲先生的<唐宋诗150首>,这本书里面一定有这首诗, IF can 把许先生的译本放上来，将不胜感激。

[秋叶]

[[我还没有昵称]]

[何兆龙]

谢谢秋叶老师的点评，我再按您的建议改改看。同时我希望您和其他各位帮忙想想办法。多谢了！

[[南音]]

谢谢秋叶老师的点评，我再按您的建议改改看。同时我希望您和其他各位帮忙想想办法。多谢了！

[星子]

何老师的译文很好，所以送给几个洋诗人看看。。。有一个专门喜欢改版李白的，说打印下来了，会和他自己还有的几个版本比较。。。(下次，我也会把他的改版贴上，让大家看看西方人读我们古诗的味道)

让我们静待佳音。。。
_________________

[[ANNA]]

何老师的译文很好，所以送给几个洋诗人看看。。。有一个专门喜欢改版李白的，说打印下来了，会和他自己还有的几个版本比较。。。(下次，我也会把他的改版贴上，让大家看看西方人读我们古诗的味道)

让我们静待佳音。。。
_________________

[何兆龙]

谢谢星子。
诚如秋叶老师所言，我那两句是为了凑韵脚. 有一个现象，古诗英译，很少有译者注意原诗的韵脚，总是合上英文的韵脚就行了。秋叶老师提出要以原诗韵律为准，这是从更高的标准来要求古诗英译，应该是学者们努力的方向。

[[南音]]

谢谢星子。
诚如秋叶老师所言，我那两句是为了凑韵脚. 有一个现象，古诗英译，很少有译者注意原诗的韵脚，总是合上英文的韵脚就行了。秋叶老师提出要以原诗韵律为准，这是从更高的标准来要求古诗英译，应该是学者们努力的方向。

[星子]

Sue has given comments like the folllowings:

Anna,
There are parts of each I like. I read the first and thought oh yes, then the second and thought hmmm, then the third and that is how it truly went.

I like the opening in the first very much.

like this line a lot in vers. 2

Yet with the moon as friend and the shadow as slave
I must make merry before the Spring is spent.

and I like the image in vers. 3 of this

How can the moon take a swallow
and my shadow merely knows to follow

ah, I know this is far from helpful, just my sense as I read.

Sue
_________________

[[ANNA]]

Sue has given comments like the folllowings:

Anna,
There are parts of each I like. I read the first and thought oh yes, then the second and thought hmmm, then the third and that is how it truly went.

I like the opening in the first very much.

like this line a lot in vers. 2

Yet with the moon as friend and the shadow as slave
I must make merry before the Spring is spent.

and I like the image in vers. 3 of this

How can the moon take a swallow
and my shadow merely knows to follow

ah, I know this is far from helpful, just my sense as I read.

Sue
_________________

[秋叶]

[[我还没有昵称]]

[何兆龙]

秋叶老师：
同意您的前提，诗歌不可译。
我想我会选择您说的第二种方法，尽量保持原作的风格。这里主要是指语言风格，如果就押韵而言， 我的意见如下：
1 英诗翻中文， 因中文现代诗歌不怎么讲究押韵，尽量保持原作的韵。当然如果唐朝人翻外国诗歌，要按唐诗格律来翻。
2 中文翻英文，现代诗尽量保持原文的语言风格；古(近)体诗最好按照英诗的METRE或FOOT 来翻。
您说的按原诗韵脚位置押韵有一定道理，只是这样一来就不符合英诗的韵格,这里面确实存在矛盾，因为英诗有它独自的韵格，如果翻成英文，当然还是按英诗格律为上，如果按中文的韵的位置押，英语读者会觉得不是在读诗。
我的一点想法，希望和秋叶老师进一步探讨。

[[南音]]

秋叶老师：
同意您的前提，诗歌不可译。
我想我会选择您说的第二种方法，尽量保持原作的风格。这里主要是指语言风格，如果就押韵而言， 我的意见如下：
1 英诗翻中文， 因中文现代诗歌不怎么讲究押韵，尽量保持原作的韵。当然如果唐朝人翻外国诗歌，要按唐诗格律来翻。
2 中文翻英文，现代诗尽量保持原文的语言风格；古(近)体诗最好按照英诗的METRE或FOOT 来翻。
您说的按原诗韵脚位置押韵有一定道理，只是这样一来就不符合英诗的韵格,这里面确实存在矛盾，因为英诗有它独自的韵格，如果翻成英文，当然还是按英诗格律为上，如果按中文的韵的位置押，英语读者会觉得不是在读诗。
我的一点想法，希望和秋叶老师进一步探讨。

[星子]

英诗的FOOT METRE，，，请何兄和秋叶，什么时候指点指点?
_________________

[[ANNA]]

英诗的FOOT METRE，，，请何兄和秋叶，什么时候指点指点?
_________________

[星子]

Comments from Gary ---

First a great translation is here by Arthur Sze

www.thedrunkenboat.com/lipsze.htm

The first poem is Bynner's and the second Waley's. They should have been labeled. Waley may have been the best translator ever, so comparison to him is a bit unfair.

A couple of things about the third, your friends;

It rhymes. I'm not fond of rhyme in translations, mainly because they often seem forced. It was once the translation tradition, and I have read some horrid translations in rhyme.

In general the rhyme here works. Exceptions - for/over

which are also bad places to break

and along/around which is no rhyme at all. and the poem breaks on 4 prepositions.

Meter. Chinese poetry has exception meter and the best translation follow some echo of it. This poem would be better if each line were about the same length. The current count

7 7 12 10 8 10 11 10 8 8 11 8 10 7

I like a count of 9 to 11 which is about the length of a breath. If a short line is used, I would not start the poem with it, though at the end is okay if planned.

No that was not about meter, but syllable count. Meter will come with the right count.

The language is very simple which is good. But it needs to invoke some Chinese traditions. The worse in my opinion is the end or sky above. It is simply not poetic enough.

Swallow seems forced.

While simple anglo-saxon language is good, some latin derived words add interest. Either that or specifics. Even though Li Po did not do it, a kind of flower for example.

I did not look at a literal translation. Was this translated from the Chinese, a literal or other poems?

Good luck.

Gary
_________________

[[ANNA]]

Comments from Gary ---

First a great translation is here by Arthur Sze

www.thedrunkenboat.com/lipsze.htm

The first poem is Bynner's and the second Waley's. They should have been labeled. Waley may have been the best translator ever, so comparison to him is a bit unfair.

A couple of things about the third, your friends;

It rhymes. I'm not fond of rhyme in translations, mainly because they often seem forced. It was once the translation tradition, and I have read some horrid translations in rhyme.

In general the rhyme here works. Exceptions - for/over

which are also bad places to break

and along/around which is no rhyme at all. and the poem breaks on 4 prepositions.

Meter. Chinese poetry has exception meter and the best translation follow some echo of it. This poem would be better if each line were about the same length. The current count

7 7 12 10 8 10 11 10 8 8 11 8 10 7

I like a count of 9 to 11 which is about the length of a breath. If a short line is used, I would not start the poem with it, though at the end is okay if planned.

No that was not about meter, but syllable count. Meter will come with the right count.

The language is very simple which is good. But it needs to invoke some Chinese traditions. The worse in my opinion is the end or sky above. It is simply not poetic enough.

Swallow seems forced.

While simple anglo-saxon language is good, some latin derived words add interest. Either that or specifics. Even though Li Po did not do it, a kind of flower for example.

I did not look at a literal translation. Was this translated from the Chinese, a literal or other poems?

Good luck.

Gary
_________________

[星子]

Thanks Gary for taking it very seriously. Since we are good friends in a Critique forum. So we get used to be strict. Here only represents his personal opinion. So anyone can take it in or toss. ( this is the rule of critque)

For me, I like 3th most.

Anna

[[ANNA]]

Thanks Gary for taking it very seriously. Since we are good friends in a Critique forum. So we get used to be strict. Here only represents his personal opinion. So anyone can take it in or toss. ( this is the rule of critque)

For me, I like 3th most.

Anna

[何兆龙]

Gary 的评点有功力，学习了，我们随便鼓捣的东西，拿到洋人真神面前，当然是经不起推敲的。

Arthur Sze 的译文确实好，自然得很，我那篇雕琢的痕迹确实太重。我说不太欣赏国外汉学家译的中国东东，看来也是阅读有限所致。 不过也是，WALEY 这样的大家也翻这个奶奶样，难怪我说风凉话。

谢谢星子，费心了。感谢你的朋友，我获益非浅.

[[南音]]

Gary 的评点有功力，学习了，我们随便鼓捣的东西，拿到洋人真神面前，当然是经不起推敲的。

Arthur Sze 的译文确实好，自然得很，我那篇雕琢的痕迹确实太重。我说不太欣赏国外汉学家译的中国东东，看来也是阅读有限所致。 不过也是，WALEY 这样的大家也翻这个奶奶样，难怪我说风凉话。

谢谢星子，费心了。感谢你的朋友，我获益非浅.